Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)
Come on a ride along with a Veteran Homicide Detective as the twists and turns of the job suddenly end his career and nearly his life; discover how something wonderful is born out of the Darkness. Embark on the journey from helping people on their worst days, to bringing life, excitement and smiles on their best days.
Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)
Unleashing the Storm: Alaska State Trooper Jeff Hall's Journey from Jungle Warfare to Manhunts in the Wilderness; The Shooting at Manly Hotsprings
Jeff Hall's life reads like an epic novel, filled with breathtaking moments of survival, resilience, and profound transformation. Imagine surviving a helicopter crash in Vietnam, navigating the emotional landscape of love amidst the chaos of Rhodesia, and then stepping into the icy, perilous world of Alaska as a State Trooper. Jeff shares his incredible journey with us, from facing down serial killers to his undercover work tackling drug issues. His story is a testament to the relentless human spirit and the capacity for growth and change even in the face of unimaginable challenges.
The Alaskan wilderness poses its own unique set of challenges, painting a picture of law enforcement few can imagine. Jeff's career with the Alaska State Troopers took him from the rugged streets of Bethel to establishing new posts in remote areas like St. Mary's. Whether strategizing with the CERT team or navigating treacherous terrains in pursuit of fugitives, Jeff's tale is one of bravery and dedication. He shines a light on the unyielding collaboration required among law enforcement entities in such vast and unforgiving landscapes, making his experiences all the more gripping and awe-inspiring.
As Jeff opens up about personal loss and the journey toward healing, he speaks candidly about the weight of PTSD and the vital role of mental health support. He shares heartfelt reflections on the loss of dear colleagues and the personal battles that ended at the doors of therapy with a psychologist named Shirley. His story transcends the thrilling exploits of his career, touching on the shift within law enforcement toward a culture that encourages seeking help and embracing vulnerability. Jeff's journey is not just about survival; it's about finding strength in fragility and offering hope to those walking a similar path.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Murders to Music podcast. My name is Aaron, I'm your host and you guys are in for an awesome show with an awesome guest. This guy is the real-life John Wick, the real-life Jack Reacher. Here's what we got. We got Jeff Hall. He's a master of martial arts in numerous different styles. He's up to 10th degree black belt. He is a master with a handgun.
Speaker 1:How did he get here? It started in Vietnam. He went to Vietnam in the early 70s. From there he became an airborne ranger. That's when his helicopter was shot down.
Speaker 1:He's going to tell you all about that. He's going to tell you about spending 13 months in a hospital. But immediately after four years in Nam, he went to Rhodesia where he worked as a contract worker during the time that Nelson Mandela was sending his troops across to attack locals and the local farmers to take over land. He was deeply involved in that. He's going to tell you all about it. But what I want you to hear is how he fell in love with the farmer's daughter. I want you to hear to that story, because that story is going to give you goosebumps. After all of that, he returned to the United States where he became an Alaska State Trooper. During his time an Alaska State Trooper, he got involved in four different gunfights, one of which was including a serial killer that was traveling north from Chicago and killing people all along the way, leaving a trail of disaster in his way, and he planted himself in the heart of Alaska, the remote Alaska, where people go to hide. That's when Jeff found him, got into a confrontation with him and ultimately got involved in a shooting.
Speaker 1:You're going to hear about four major losses in Jeff's life and you're going to hear about the way that he recovered from those. But the most important thing about this entire story is not what he's done, not necessarily his loss, but it's what he's from those. But the most important thing about this entire story is not what he's done, not necessarily his loss, but it's what he's doing today, At 70 to 80 years old, Jeff is an advocate for PTS, PTSD, trying to save lives of the younger generation of law enforcement. And this is so critical because somebody who's experienced his amount of trauma, his amount of experiences in life, to now be talking about PTS and injuries and recovery and encouraging people to get help and therapy. Well, you guys know my story. That didn't happen in my day, and it surely didn't happen 30 years before me. So, ladies and gentlemen, let's meet Jeff. Jeff, why don't you tell us how you got involved in this whole thing?
Speaker 2:It was the day after my birthday, because my dad said when you're 18, you can do whatever you want, gotcha. So anyway, I went to Fort Benning, went through boot camp there military or infantry school and jump school, school and jump school, and there were three of us that happened to be in the same platoon. Through all three of those, we were on the same airplane going to Vietnam. One was named James Albert Champion. Of course we called him Jimmy. He's the only airborne ranger missing in action in Vietnam. He went out another guy, tommy Russell. He and I went to 173rd Airborne up in the Central Highlands and Jimmy went out to Pleiku, which is by the Cambodian border, pleiku, which is by the Cambodian border. Anyway, he was missing in action and but so that was one loss that I had. Of course, during the course in Vietnam you don't make friends very much. Nobody wants to be your friend because you know, know you're the new guy, the FNG, and you're going to get killed. So they don't even know who you are. Anyway, we made it through that and Tommy was with me the whole time and I was able to go up later to a ranger company up at LZ English and was there and went through the.
Speaker 2:The training was kind of casual. At that point we already had our combat infantryman's badge and we had, and we were airborne, of course, and that's what they wanted. So we had to learn their communications and how they patrol. It's usually six men that they would put in to an LZ someplace where you went out and did whatever you're supposed to do Typically. And one thing I liked about it is we weren't supposed to make contact with the enemy, we were supposed to find the enemy. Sometimes they would have us just watch trails, sometimes they would want us to ambush NVA or Viet Cong.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I was wounded in April of 71, spent 13 months at Madigan General Hospital. It was our final training mission and the final training mission is a live insertion into an LZ. And the Vietnamese figured this out in 1965 when they fought the air cav in the Ai Drang Valley. Any place that a helicopter could land, somebody was watching it and they would fly three Hueys in at three different LZs, but only one of them had people they were putting off and all I remember was green tracers coming at the helicopter. And I woke up three days later at Madigan Army Hospital and my left leg was broken in three places and my pelvis was broken and Tommy broke both of his legs when we crashed.
Speaker 2:But anyway, we made it through that and I got out of the Army in December of 73, and my parents lived in Port Angeles, washington, at the time. And so I went home and there was a letter there waiting for me and it was postmarked Salisbury, rhodesia, and that's all it said. On it had my parents address, because that's where I told Tommy that it's the easiest way to get hold of me. So I opened it up and it said I'm in Rhodesia, I need you here, come. So I went to Rhodesia. I went to my dad and said I handed him a letter and he knew Tommy and he said well, you guys watch each other's back in Vietnam, you'll be watching his, he'll be watching you in Rhodesia, but I'm not going to tell your mother because when she finds out that you're in Rhodesia, she's going to go through the ceiling. So just as soon as you get to Rhodesia, send me a card that you got there. So that's what we did and we were hired to protect a bunch of Afrikaner farmers.
Speaker 2:You've heard of the Boer War and the English were trying to take over South Africa and the Boers were all Dutch immigrants to Southern Africa and they decided well, we're out of here. So they called it the Great Trek and they went all the way up into Rhodesia. There's a river that separates Rhodesia from South Africa, it's the Limpopo River. And so here was one of the first. Well, about the second greatest loss I had. I fell in love with a farmer's daughter Picture in your mind a 19-year-old Charlize Theron and her father was a little unhappy that we hit it off. But during the dry season, when the water was shallow, nelson Mandela's terrorists would come across the Limpopo and attack one of the Boer farmers.
Speaker 2:And in 1974, rhodesia fed all of Africa. I mean, they had everything livestock, wheat, grain, fruit, all kinds of stuff and eight of them came across the river. Four of them attacked the house and eight of them came across the river. Four of them attacked the house and we got pulled off because our radio went off. They said we needed to go north. So we jumped in the Land Rover, which is the world's most overrated off-road vehicle. They got a little tiny in those days, four-cylinder engine, and they're heavier than hell. So if you go across the corner fast, you're pretty much going to end up on the side of it when it flips over. Anyway, we got up there and they said break off, it's a diversion. So we turned around and started going back and we could see smoke from the barn. They attacked the house first and her brother, krista's brother, killed four of them that were trying to break into the house. But she was hanging laundry with a little black housemaid down toward the barn, which was about 100 yards away, and they grabbed her and the black four of them grabbed her four cows and took them down across the river. So we got close.
Speaker 2:We had a tracker there who was originally from Kenya but he had worked for a white hunter, tracking down wounded animals and that kind of stuff. So when Jomo Kenyatta took power and turned Kenya into another Marxist shithole, he was persona non grata and he was persona non grata. Anyway, we got there and he's tracking, going down to the river and even I could have done it, because you got four cows, four men and two women being dragged. Even I could track him down. Anyway, I'll make the long story short. They went across the river Kidogo was the tracker's name. He went across, slithered up there like a snake, crawled back to the edge of the river and he put his hand down below the bank and moved us across, because if you go like this, the other guys could have seen the motion. So Tommy and I went across. I think we looked like two elephants, not like anything that Kidogo could have done. You weren't slithering like a snake.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. Anyway, we could see the little black house girl and they'd already beheaded her and disemboweled her after they raped and sodomized her for however long they wanted. I couldn't see Krista from there, but we crawled up to this log and Tidogo, and there's a guy standing there, a black guy. There's three terrorists sitting on the log and he's pointing his finger at them and yelling at them in Zulu or whatever language they were speaking. And Kidogo whispered to us, men talking buena boss. So I said okay, and I whispered to Tommy, you take the two on the right, I'll take the two on the left on three. So one, two, three, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 2:We were each carrying Belgian FAL paratrooper carbines. I wish I still had that gun. And we shot Buona. I shot Buona in his right thigh, tommy, we had to stay there for a couple of minutes and watch to see if there weren't anybody else. So Tommy went. He said I'll find Krista. So he goes, and Cadoga and I drag the guy over to the tree, strip him naked, put a tourniquet around his leg, tied him to the tree. Strip him naked, put a tourniquet around his leg, tied him to the tree, spread his legs apart, put some stakes in the ground tied him to that and Tommy had gone back over and got the Land Rover and driven it about a kilometer down river and there was a little village there called Bite Bridge and there was a bridge across the Limpopo and he went across and he had brought it up there.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we tracked him down and we killed them all but nothing would ever bring her back. But he died poorly. It took him about 30 minutes but we went back across the river. Tommy put Krista and the black girl into blankets, rolled them up, put them inside tarps, we put them in the back of the Land Rover, went across the bridge and then we sat and listened while the hyenas had supper. And what do wild animals eat first?
Speaker 1:The face, the soft parts. The soft parts, yeah, the soft tissues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and he died poorly, poorly. He screamed for about half an hour and there's a difference between being legal and being just, and what we did was just, because those guys were absolute savages. So that was my second huge loss.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you a question there, if I can, Jeff. So you were emotionally attached to Krista and doing this type of work and seeing Warfares not new to you at this point, but what was the difference? What were you feeling going after somebody that you are potentially in love with? What was different about that compared to what you'd done in the past?
Speaker 2:Well, she was two months pregnant with my offspring when they captured her and took her across and had this not happened, I would have stayed there, Probably. 10 years later Mugabe took over and turned it into Zimbabwe, changed Salisbury to Harare, or something like that. I would have stayed there the entire time and had I stayed there and been able to keep the terrorists away for 10 years, I could have brought Krista, my offspring, all of her family, could have got them all to America 1984, and we may have lived happily ever after. So that's what made it different for me.
Speaker 1:Wow, thank you, jeff. I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, no, that's okay. So I finally decided, gee, I was there for almost a year and I decided I better take advantage of the GI Bill. So I went to Washington State University, got a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and I joined the Washington State Patrol the Washington State Patrol is AAA, with a bow tie and, long story short again, I didn't like it very much and in those days you were a patrol cadet and you might have to wait five years before you got to go to the academy and I didn't think I could sit around, you know, learning how to run a teletype machine and washing the sergeant's car and doing all the rest of that stuff. So I made a phone call Anchorage to try to get a phone number. And I said and the operator said what can I help you with? Can you give me the number for the Alaska State Police? And she said they're the Alaska State Troopers, son. Yes, here's their phone number. So I dialed that phone number. She said can I talk to the colonel please?
Speaker 2:And one moment, about 20 seconds later, this voice comes over Sidnam, sir, my name's Jeff Hall and I gave him about a 30-second resume Vietnam, rhodesia, bachelor's degree. All the rest of that he said be here by the 3rd of March and hung up, that was it. So I hung up, yep up, that was it. So I hung up, yep. And uh, uh, uh went up there. Um and well one, there was a woman there who came into the the uh office I was in in in Port Angeles, and uh, she, her husband was a Alaska state trooper and she said you can use our mailbox because you have to be a resident of Alaska. So I did, I lied and went up there and said yeah, I'm a resident, got an Alaska driver's license and then the rest of it is just went to the. I went up there in March. He was a corporal then named Glenn Godfrey.
Speaker 1:I know Glenn Godfrey.
Speaker 2:Corporal Godfrey somewhere became First Sergeant Godfrey. After I got there, Godfrey offered me an undercover job in Bethel and if you've been to Bethel you know how beautiful it is, where they have the one tree and that's the Bethel National Forest Beautiful. And my job was to be the tall gusuk driving a taxi cab. So I drove a cab, Gusick driving a taxi cab. So I drove a cab. I was making $300, $400 a day and all these, the Yupix are all. It's not like you order a cab and they come to your house and then you go straight out to the airport. No, you'll go to five different stops in between and they'd go into one of the stops here and I'd just take out my little notebook and write down the address and he'd come out with a couple of bottles of booze.
Speaker 1:So I was out there until August, Went there from May to August, Then went to the academy, so real quick when you were out there doing undercover. What was the mission? Was this an alcohol drug enforcement mission or what was it?
Speaker 2:Both. Yeah, all the booze was bootlegged and back in those days you could charge $100 for a 750 milliliter bottle of whiskey and those guys were just making a fortune. And then Bethel made itself a dry town. So I was trying to find the bootleggers, trying to find drugs, the rest of that stuff, and I was in Anchorage. That was where I went with my FTO.
Speaker 2:My first FTO was Tom Clements and he was later the chief of police in Seward and a bunch of other stuff. And so I went there and he said I'd like to buy you lunch. Okay, and he was a first sergeant then. So I went in and he said I want to open a post in St Mary's. And I said okay, first sergeant, where's St Mary's? He said it's 110 miles north of Bethel on the Yukon River. It's St Mary's because there's a Catholic boarding school there. Would you be interested in going? I said yes, first Sergeant, I didn't come to Alaska to be a city policeman, so I'm your man.
Speaker 2:So I went out there for two years, 58,000 square miles. I was the only trooper, had a brand new snow machine, brand new riverboat, brand new truck and no adult supervision. So I had a really good couple of years out there and then of course you know, at some point you want to get back to other people. So then I went to Fairbanks. I was there for five years. After Fairbanks I went to Palmer for five years. Fairbanks is when I first got on the CERT team. That's the troopers version of SWAT, special Emergency Response Team, response team. I got on there and of course you know about the Manley shooting.
Speaker 1:That happened on May 19th 1984. Can you tell us about Manley Hot Springs, how you got involved in that, how that unfolded, ultimately leading up to Troy? Okay, manley Hot.
Speaker 2:Springs, ultimately leading up to Troy, okay, manly, hot Springs. Troy Duncan was a Marine Corps captain. He was going to get out of the Marine Corps. I met him at a gun show. Oddly enough, I brought in a prisoner from Bethel and put him in the jail and then down by the airport there was a gun show. So I'm walking through there and I'm talking to this guy and he's six foot two, 230 pounds, something like that. And I turned around to leave and he said and he saw the in the vent on the back of my suit coat, he saw the handcuffs. He said excuse me, are you a policeman? I said no, I'm an Alaska State Trooper. And he said by golly, that sounds pretty good to me. He said I'm getting out of the Corps. How do I find out about it? How do I find out about it? And I says well, you just drive down to Tudor Road, that great big building there, walk up the stairs and ask to talk to the recruiting staff. So he did. They hired him, went to the academy, he, in the meantime I transferred from St Mary's to Fairbanks and I went to Captain Lawrence and said hey, sir, we got a guy down at the academy that we need His name's Troy Lynn Duncan, former Marine captain, vietnam combat veteran. He'd be a good guy for you to scoop up. And the detachment commanders, if they went down there and talked to somebody or if I said that they would just put it in and say I want this guy and they would send them up to the detachment. And so that's how we uh, that's how we got started. And I was on the cert team and I went to the cert team leader. Uh name was sam bernard. Um, I said, sam, we got this guy. I know you're supposed to have two years on, but I told him about troy's background. He said, well, we got room for that. I'll ask the captain if we can bring him up here. So they brought him up there and they put him on the CERT team and the rest was history.
Speaker 2:And so Manly Hot Springs one night well, it was May, it was still light outside, all the rest of that stuff and my pager went off and uh for a cert call out. So I jumped in my patrol car and I drove down to Pager Road and went into the cert locker and Troy was there and John Myers was there, dave Hamilton was there. So we're down there loading ammo or loading magazines and stuff. And I was loading tracers into 20 round M16 magazines One ball, one tracer, one ball, one tracer. And I had four loaded up that way and I gave two to Troy and two to me. And he stops and he looks at me and says you know, I spent my entire life in contact sports, military, vietnam. He said today is my day. I said okay, let's go. So we went.
Speaker 2:We had already known about Michael Silka, because a trooper and a fish and wildlife trooper had gone out to. There's a little place out on Chena pump road uh, called Hopkinsville. They're just dry cabins, you know, no running water, all that stuff. And this guy, roger Culp, was living in one and Silke was in another one and Silke was stealing firewood from an old lady and uh, roger Culp went over there and pounded on his door and he said something like say, asshole, you want firewood, go get your own. Silke killed him. We don't know what he shot him with. We think he threw the body over his shoulder, went across the road, dumped him in a hole in the ice on the Chena River and the body was never found. And so we had to locate. And then a fish and wildlife trooper and a blue shirt trooper, fish and wildlife troopers and road troopers go to the same academy but instead of going to a homicide class they have fish and wildlife, fish and game rules and stuff like that that they have to figure, anyway. So the fish and wildlife trooper said where did you get that moose hide? And he says oh, a friend of mine gave me a quarter of it. And he said said so, I still got the meat. So anyway, uh, the blue shirt trooper is talking to him and the fish and wildlife trooper went over with a a little film canister for those of you guys that have never seen a roll of film, that's a little little little bottle about that big anyway, and he picked up some snow and he sent it down to the lab and said moose don't have O-positive blood. And so they went back out there and of course Silco was gone.
Speaker 2:We flew out there and got there at about 3 o'clock in the morning, but it was still light enough that you could see pretty well, and the guy who owned the roadhouse was a former trooper and he had called on the radio telephone and says we got this strange guy here and we're missing some people. And then the guy up at man Lake called and said hey, we got this weird guy here and he keeps running around. He's got this great big knife and he's been living down at the boat ramp which was an old fish cannery down there right on the. It was on the Tanana, not on the Yukon yet, and excuse me. And so we just patrolled down. The four of us Dave Hamilton was point, I was slack, the lieutenant was main element and Troy was rear guard. So we went down there and were looking around and you know I wasn't a homicide detective at that time, but I can recognize drag marks and blood, drag marks and blood.
Speaker 2:And it turns out that the day before two guys went down and it was, it was everybody's dump. You know, if you had a dishwasher that didn't work anymore, you went down there and put it there and somebody would scavenge parts off it or whatever. So these two guys went down there and one of them, his name was Majeska and he had a reputation for being real surly. Anyway, we think that he and Silke got into some sort of a verbal confrontation and so he shot Silke, shot Majeska with a Ruger 44 Magnum and the other guy was running away and he shot, silke shot Majeska with a Ruger 44 Magnum and the other guy was running away and he shot and killed him and he dragged their bodies down and threw them in the Tanana. But he was waiting for the ice to go out so that he could get his canoe in there. And for guys that have never heard of this, all the rivers freeze solid and then at some time in the spring the ice breaks up. So anyway, he was waiting for the ice to go out and about that time a guy named Lyman Klein, his wife, two-year-old son, came down on a three-wheeler. Silke shot all three of them, dragged them down and put them in the river. And then there was a sixth guy who came down. Silke killed him, threw him in the river and that night the ice went out. So he had a Grumman square stern canoe with a little outboard on it, so he put it in the water and started taking off up river.
Speaker 2:So we got out there and we start patrolling down there and we see all of this stuff and the Lieutenant was a was a avid runner. So he said I'll run back to the, to the roadhouse and get the rest of the team up here and we'll get both helicopters up here. So he did and so we started flying. After a few minutes we started flying, going all over. We had two or three super cubs up there with fish and wildlife troopers in them and we're circling all of these places. The bad thing was their season had just opened and there were a lot of people out on the water.
Speaker 2:And it turns out that Silke was heading upriver and he was going to take a right and go up this river called the Zit-Ziana, which naturally they called the Zit River, and there was a guy coming down named Fred Burke and he had a bigger boat and had quite a bit of gas. So Silke killed him, took his boat so he could have the gas and the motor, tied his canoe on behind Burke's boat and started going up the Zit River and we could find a tent. So we're flying around and we find a tent. If there's a place we could land we'd bring the helicopter down. And Troy and I jumped out one and there's a tent over there and we went up and Roy flopped down behind a log at about 25 yards from the tent and I said I'll go up and make contact. So I go up and say stay, troopers, can you come out of the tent please? When you come out of the tent, show me both of your hands so it zips down and the guy comes out with his hands. Okay, trooper, what's up? They said, well, we're looking for a guy that we believe just killed six people down at Manly. You're not him, but if you see a guy in a square-end canoe, watch yourself and if he starts coming toward you, just shoot him. Okay, trooper.
Speaker 2:So we did that and did that, and did that, and then finally, at about 3 in the afternoon, of course, we were all tired by then. So we took a break and went back to the roadhouse and I'm laying in bed and I got my 1911 in my hand and the door flies open. I came up out of it and, pointing my 1911 at the door, and it was a uh explorer girl that was in. They had a a uh explorer program for people that might want to become troopers. Anyway, um, we got up. I got up, we went down.
Speaker 2:So we put up a quick plan and the other helicopter was there and another CERT trooper, but we didn't. There was, and there was another guy, craig McDonald. That wasn't CERT but he was there and he had a rifle. So those two got in one helicopter and Dave and I got in the other helicopter, or Troy and I and Dave and I got in the other helicopter, or Troy and I Dave was in the other helicopter because our plan was we were going to find this guy and we'd fly past him, put Dave Hamilton on the bank and then we'd have two helicopters here and a guy with a sniper rifle in front of him. So one of the three of us would shoot him. And of course, a plan is just a list of things that isn't going to happen. Or if you want to hear God laugh, tell him the plan.
Speaker 2:So anyway, dave's helicopter peeled off and went down and stopped on another tent. So it was Troy and I and we're flying up there and I look down like this oh, and, by the way, we're on our way out there and Troy keys a mic on it and says, oh, I'm glad I got my life insurance picked up or paid up. And I've known guys my father knew guys that just had some sort of premonition that they weren't going to make it. Anyway, I don't know if Troy did or not. Never had a chance to ask him. So, anyway, I look down there and I can see this boat and it's Burke's boat, but the Grumman canoe is tied behind it and I saw him look up at us like this and then he reached down to pick up something and then we lost him because we went behind some trees and of course our mission was to stop and arrest him.
Speaker 2:And so our pilot was a guy named Tom Davis, two tours flying gunships in Vietnam. So he was a wonderful helicopter pilot. So Tom is coming down like this on the and we're just getting ready to touch down and I said break off, break off, you know, because I've landed in hot LZs before and that guy there were three trees like this and that guy we couldn't see him, but we knew that he could dominate. It was the only place within 10 miles that we could have put the helicopter down. It was on a big gravel bed. And so Tom started changing kerosene for horsepower and went like this, and Silke came out with the rifle, came up and shot.
Speaker 2:I shot three rounds, or I shot a burst, and Troy shot three rounds. He was shooting an AR-15 with a Colt scope on it and he was an expert marksman in the Marine Corps. I was just an Army grunt so I just wanted to put a whole bunch of bullets down there and hope the guy walked into it. And I saw that I hit low and to the right. And I knew better than that because we used to shoot wolves from a Super Cub. And I found out that you have to. If this is your target and you're moving this way, you have to aim here, not at it, because the rounds will go over here. It's called the Bernoulli effect, anyway. So we start going up and we all shoot going up and we all shoot Silke. He had a falling block Ruger rifle and he used to carry a cartridge in his mouth and he could shoot it, flip it down, put that in, shoot it and he could keep a tin can bouncing at 100 yards, according to some people.
Speaker 2:And before we went out we said, no, is this guy some kind of a tough guy? You know Navy SEAL, green Beret, whatever? No, he's just some fuck from Chicago. That's what the team leader said, anyway. So I adjusted my aim on the second burst, fired dry. I could see the tracers hitting him dry. I could see the tracers hitting him. I hit him eight times from his shin, to his thigh, to his pelvis, and he went over backwards and that was it. And I turned around and looked and I figured all the red stuff on me was Troy, because he had troy right through the neck with a 180 grain 30-06 round. It had gone through his neck and hit the detachment commander, captain lawrence, captain lawrence, in the side of his head. Wow. So anyway, um, that was it.
Speaker 2:And then we went back to manly. Uh, there was a. And then we went back to Manly, there was some big fat photographer starts waddling over there. He's got three cameras and I'm standing outside the play and trying to gather all this, I'm trying to get my mind straight. And this guy raised the camera and I stepped in front of him and I said what are you doing? He says I'm taking a picture.
Speaker 2:I said you're not taking a picture of my friend. He said well, I'm from the Anchorage Daily News. I can take whatever picture I want. Have you heard of the First Amendment? And I said have you heard of 1911 in 45 caliber? And I drew it up like this and pointed at his head and I said if you raise that camera I'll fucking kill you Just about that voice. So he squealed like a pig and he turned around and ran away and the other helicopter landed and the team leader got out and said what's up, jeff? I said, well, he said he was going to take Troy's picture and I told him I would fucking kill him. And the guy hadn't quite left yet and, uh, the boss looked over at him and said why are you? I get out of here. He just killed somebody else 10 minutes ago, so get out of here Anyway that was about the whole story.
Speaker 1:Wow, and what year was that? 1984. 1984. Okay, how long had you been a trooper at that point?
Speaker 2:Not even five years, wow, wow. This was the 40th anniversary. When I was up in Fairbanks and gave the speech. That was on the 17th of May and he was on May 19th. I was up in Fairbanks and I gave a presentation during police week and there were about 200 police officers out there and I talked to them about loss and about post-traumatic stress injuries. I know about loss. Then, of course, I lost Troy.
Speaker 2:A couple years later, randy Crawford was killed in a plane crash. So I lost him and that one kind of put me over the edge. And my wife came up and grabbed me by the stacking swivel. And for guys who don't know what that is, in the old days when you had a swivel at the front part of your rifle, you would put three of them together and then stack the rest of them on it like a teepee. So the stacking swivel. Anyway, she grabbed me and said you're not the man I married After Randy died. You've kind of gone over the hill. I want you to go get some help and, strangely for me, I actually took her advice.
Speaker 2:I went to the VA, took me three months to get an appointment. I got there and I'm sitting in the waiting room and there's 12 guys sitting there from the sandbox wars and two of them had no legs. Everybody was missing a hand or an arm or whatever. And they're all sitting there going like this, you know, and shaking and stuff. And they called my name and I went into the psychiatrist and said hey, doc, I've been carrying this load for a long time. These guys need you more than I do. Where can I go to get some help? Because I have real good insurance and I can do it. And he says, well, thank you, because, yes, I'm overloaded all the time. Go see Shirley at Inland Psych and Psychology.
Speaker 2:So I made an appointment with Shirley and I went in there the first time and we spent an hour and a half and she says come back next week at the same time. So I went back the next week, same time, and I said Shirley, what's a high order sociopath? And she said well, why do you say that? And I said, well, because some guy that I work with once said I was a high order sociopath. And she laughed and said well, we don't use the word sociopath anymore, it's all degrees of psychopathy. And I said that's not very comforting, shirley. She said you're not a psychopath. You're not a sociopath. You really fucked up, but you're not a psychopath. You're really fucked up, but you're not a psychopath.
Speaker 2:So for nine months every week I went in there and talked to Shirley. I told her things that I have never told anybody about except my dad, because he was a three-war paratrooper jumped at D-Day, jumped at Arnhem, jumped into Germany with a company of 101st Airborne to capture a big railroad yard and he was wounded for the fourth or fifth time at the Battle of the Bulge. Then he went to Korea where he earned a distinguished service cross. He earned three silver stars. He was an advisor in Vietnam in 62.
Speaker 2:And he wanted his last year to be in the field with 101st Airborne because he was one of the very first paratroopers 1939, he and his lifetime heterosexual partner, damon Timothy Buckley. They decided in 1939 that they had to get into regular army. So they went down to Fort Benning and Damon came running in one day. Now, this is guys. That dad said when he joined the Nebraska National Guard. It's the first time he could count on three meals a day. And so Damon comes running in with this piece of paper and he goes Hal, they got these guys called paratroopers, you get an extra 10 bucks a month and we don't have to walk there, they're going to fly us there. So they were both in the same the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment as the Band of Brothers.
Speaker 2:At the same time Band of Brothers was 2nd Battalion, dad was in 1st Battalion. So anyway, he went to Vietnam as an advisor he could have. He got home I was 10 years old and I said are you going to retire now, dad? He said no. He said in 1962, vietnam was in a war and the combat infantryman's badge is a blue enamel outlined in silver and it has sort of a wreath that comes up. If you're in a second war you get a star up there, if you're in a third war you get another star. And Dad said nope, I'm staying in this green son of a bitch until I get my seventh Purple Heart and my second star. So they made him the sergeant major in charge of recruiting in eastern Washington, north Idaho, western Montana, down into Oregon. And then he went back there and was with the 101st for the final year, 30th year, in Vietnam.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So, and while he was there, one of my older brothers was a first lieutenant in that same regiment and was killed in action while dad was there. So that was another loss, but anyway. So I talked about loss and I talked about post-traumatic stress, and so when I was finally with Shirley on the ninth month, she said you don't need me anymore, you found what you were seeking. And she said I said what was I seeking? And she said permission and forgiveness. So I felt better about everything after she said that.
Speaker 2:So that's one thing that when I gave this speech up in Fairbanks, I told them about loss Christa Vanderpool, jimmy Champion, troy Duncan, randy Crawford, some others, randy Crawford, some others and I said guys, you guys know my reputation. I'm a pretty tough guy and I couldn't carry this by myself. So you guys, some of you have already seen things that no one should ever have to see, and some of you haven't seen it yet, but you will see it. So don't be afraid to go to your boss and say I need some help because I don't know if I can keep doing this. And after that was over, the deputy commissioner came up to me and shook my hand and said that was wonderful. Would you do that again for us? I said, yes, sir, send me a plane ticket and I'll do the same speech to anybody you want.
Speaker 2:So post-traumatic stress injuries don't become a disorder until you let them become a disorder. And I was starting to let mine become a disorder and spending that time with Shirley and then talking to these other guys, I feel better than I have in 50 some years. So we can't be afraid to say oh yeah, you're going to be a sissy if you go talk to a shrink. No, here's an analogy that I use Okay, so you got a little bit of cancer on your lung. If you don't get the cancer out, it's going to spread and you're going to die. And if you have post-traumatic stress injury and you don't get it taken care of, you're going to die.
Speaker 1:Pretty much the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this. I think that PTSD, well, let me ask you, ask you this way Was PTSD accepted back in your generation? When you're doing combat and you're starting with the last state troopers and I'm going to talk about ast in a second but when you're starting with it, was ptsd an accepted thing? Talking about your feelings, is that something you guys did? Was it accepted or not?
Speaker 2:it was pretty much. Yeah, go run it off, not go see a health care specialist.
Speaker 1:And then, how did you feel personally when you were diagnosed with PTSD?
Speaker 2:I was never diagnosed with it. I just except my wife, I guess said you need help, and Shirley said you don't need me anymore because you found what you were seeking. So, um, I, you know I didn't care what anybody thought about me at that point Um, I didn't want to lose my life, I didn't want to lose my job, I didn't want to lose anything else.
Speaker 1:So you just uh, cowboy up and take care of it and, from what I've seen and heard, is almost like none other. You know the Alaska State Troopers back in the day. There's not a tougher set of cops in the nation, I would say, and everybody thinks that their agency is the supreme agency everywhere. I'm telling you, guys, I grew up in Alaska. I grew up around these old school AST guys and girls and there's not a tougher bunch. You've got one guy for 58,000 square miles that has to take care of business and backup is three or four days away at best. They're just badass and Jeff is no different. In fact, jeff is leading that pack.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about Manly Hot Springs here in a second Um, and that'll lead us into Troy and some of these other losses explain them.
Speaker 1:But um, for such a tough group of guys and gals and an agency for you to now accept for that, that's where you grew up, that's what you learned, that's where you cut your teeth, ETS injuries as an acceptable thing, as therapy as an acceptable thing, and encouraging others to seek therapy when the chips are down that is such a huge cultural shift from where I would expect somebody of your generation to be and that just speaks a huge testament to you.
Speaker 1:So thank you so much for continuing that message because you're absolutely right. Whether you've ever met Jeff Hall or not, the Alaska State Troopers know who he is, and there's a couple of names that will always ring true with AST and you're one of them. So for you to get up there and be that beacon of hope for younger guys, thank you so much. I wish I would have heard that from you 20 years ago, because I guarantee you, jeff, if you would have stood up in front of me during any of those firearms trainings I took from you and spoke about this, it would have changed the trajectory of my career because of the influence you have over the state of Alaska and you would have had over me. So thank you so much for doing that.
Speaker 2:Well, um, what I knew I was going to do this, I called supply and told them I needed the. In the old days you didn't get a medal for doing your job. You got a pat on the back. Then later they came up with meritorious service, another one, and then bravery or valor, and they were just these little, they were about this big and they were outlined in brass and they were blue and you wore it on your tunic.
Speaker 2:Later, one of the guys that I lost, uh Randy Crawford. He arose to the rank of Colonel and he was running the department and he said um, well, I want, uh, I want all my troopers to be able to have something on their tunic when we have an awards banquet or something like that. I want everybody to have something. So it's kind of like the National Defense Service Medal that you get as soon as you join the military. But anyway, it sort of exploded. Um, so I, when I finally got everything that, uh, I was entitled to, there were 22 ribbons on my tunic. Um, top one is valor. Then there was bravery, then there was meritorious service with a gold star. Um went to a command college down at Southern police Institute. Oh good, you get another ribbon for that? Um, there's only a few. And then you get a bush trooper. Uh good, you get another ribbon for that. There's only a few, and then you get a bush trooper.
Speaker 2:I was on the third team. Oh, you get another ribbon. Pistol team, you get another ribbon, all that kind of stuff. But so I felt like a Vietnamese field marshal because I had all that shit hanging on my chest. But anyway, and I, to put it in context, okay, so I fought in Vietnam, I fought in Rhodesia, I was in three shootings as a trooper in Alaska and was on the CERT team. All the rest of it I was on the dive team. Anything I could do to get out of real work, I got on the team. So I was on the dive pistol team, yeah. So anyway, don't be afraid to tell somebody you need help. That's kind of what it all boils down to.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for sharing that and thank you for sharing about Troy. I had no idea. I knew the story. Obviously, I didn't know about how Troy got involved in troopers and your connection to him. That just deepens the whole thing so much more, you know. I just want to thank you. Is there anything we haven't spoke about that you think we should or you want to? You want to share with us?
Speaker 2:No, I think every law enforcement guy in the country at some point is going to see something that no one should have to see. And if you see a lot of it, it's going to start affecting you, or one event might affect you going to start affecting you, or one event might affect you. So don't be afraid to go to your boss and say you know, I just can't quite handle this by myself. Who can I go see? And they'll set you up, or you can find a psychologist that you want to talk to, or whatever, some sort of counselor.
Speaker 2:When I signed up for or I went to the VA after I got out of the army, they had a place in downtown Seattle and I went in there and there's some little twit there. About 23 years old or 24 years old just got her master's degree in counseling and she said well, sergeant, I've looked through your file and it's pretty impressive. And she said can I ask you a personal question? And I said sure, what do you want to know? What's it feel like to kill somebody? I stood up and said why don't you join the Army and go find out for yourself? And I haven't been back to the VA since. Wow, so don't be afraid to uh, don't be afraid to say I can't do this, so let me go talk to someone.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Jeff. You know from your combat experience uh, multiple areas there into Alaska, state troopers, to multiple gunfights and being the survivor coming out. It would be so easy to get yourself sucked into the world that you and I both learned best and that was brush it off, wash the blood off, move on to the next call. Feelings aren't important, you don't talk about them. And for you to make that full circle and now be an advocate for therapy and PTS injury treatment and communicating, like I said earlier, to the younger generations that are out there, that is just a huge testament to you. And you and I spoke the other day on the phone briefly.
Speaker 1:I was the cop that was never going to break. I was the guy that would put in 36 hours straight. I worked homicide and child abuse for 11 years. I've done more murder cases than I can remember. They all run together. You see, all that shit and I was never going to break and I was never going to succumb to PTS injuries.
Speaker 1:Um, because we're tough and that's just how we learned it. You know, and I think over the last year and a half, two years, two and a half years, I guess, of my recovery, I feel the same way you do If you experience the stuff that we were never intended to experience. God never intended for human beings to see what we see every single day in the line of duty as a law enforcement officer, and no matter how tough you think you are, all of that stuff seeps through the cracks and the crevices of your body and saturates your internal sponge and before you know it, that sponge is so saturated you can't take any more and, just like you said a moment ago, it will kill you. So thank you so much for being such a great advocate and you're a great voice. Thank you so much for being such a great advocate and and you're a great voice. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Well, I was in two other shootings when I was up there, one out in Alakanuk and one over by Chitina. First one was a wound and the second one was fatal, but by that time I had already gone through Troy, so it was okay.
Speaker 1:Thank you for what you did, thank you for serving both military and law enforcement, and thank you for continuing to be such a great advocate for our profession. I appreciate you and thanks for being on the show today. You're welcome.
Speaker 2:Take care of yourself.
Speaker 1:You too, buddy, thank you. You bet I can't thank Jeff enough for coming onto the show sharing his insight, sharing his stories of survival, sharing his stories of loss and just being an advocate for PTSD injuries, recovery, survival and healing. Jeff, you have no idea how many lives you are saving of the future generation by being the influential person that you are and going out and talking and sharing the good word. You are never alone and don't ever be scared to reach out and ask for help. Ladies and gentlemen, I can't believe that 2024 has come to an end.
Speaker 1:The Murders to Music podcast has released 32 episodes. We're in 218 different cities, 18 different countries, thousands of listeners, and I couldn't have done it without your help. Let's look forward to what 2025 has to offer. I know I can't wait to get back on the mic with tons and tons of stories, interviews, things that are educational, provide value and entertaining. That's what we're here for. Ladies and gentlemen, again, thank you for all your support over the year. Let's get together in 2025 and have an amazing year of the Murders to Music podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, that is, the Murders to Music podcast.
